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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 06:48:00 -
[1]
Am I the only one to notice, that a signal power, got from a probe, has been lowered approximatly two times?
Someone though "all right, now all 8 probes contribute to result - great! Easy scan!" Dreamers. It seems like at the same time they have lowered the strength for a probe, so now you have to have 8 probes "touching" the signature to receive the same result, as you had earlier with 4!
And well done CCP! As usually this "slight change" is NOT mentioned in the patchnotes. The signal power for probes (in the in-game info) looks the same as it has to be, too.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 06:58:00 -
[2]
Edited by: MisterAl tt1 on 22/06/2011 06:58:46
No, I'm sure in my skills and calculations.
Previously with 1 probe for 64 AU in our WH I got V911 signal between 1.74-2.6
Today I've got 1.29
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 07:08:00 -
[3]
I didn't check myself, but heard that you will still need a full Virtue set with perfect skills and hardwirings to scan that down.
The idea is that +4 probes contributing to scan was considered as "too easy" (which I agree) and thus 8 probes are now as good as 4 before. Now Astrometrics 5 has become a needed skill.
I think that for actual scanning that is not that evident, but for a single-probe signature check that is well-seen.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 07:29:00 -
[4]
Edited by: MisterAl tt1 on 22/06/2011 07:30:21
Checking the "bonuses not applied" thing:
Signature under consideration: V911
Expected strengths from 1 probe at 32AU: 3.47-5.21
Actual strengths got: 2.6
Now, one old bug: if you leave a probe in the system, go to the other system, then return and reconnect to the probe - your bonuses are not applied to it (at least some bonuses).
mmm... the same 2.6 So either you are right and the case is that, or they have fixed that old bug. But for me it looks like that is the thing I wrote of.
The fact is expected strenght for 32 and 64 AU probe are multiplied (or divided) by 2. So:
Expected strengths from 1 probe at 32AU: 3.47-5.21
Expected strengths from 1 probe at 64AU: 1.74-2.6
If the case is they have changed 1 probe strenght so that 8 probes become the same as 4, so that has been divided by 2, also. Thus expected strength for 32 AU would be the same as it was for 64 AU, right? And that is exactly what I see: 2.6 = 2.6
If that was the case of "no bonuses at all" - we would've got much lesser strenght expected: 1.32-1.99 for 32AU probe
Edit:
Gnorki Balanovski, I don't know and I'm not the one who will start that. Especially when what I have does not work anymore.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 08:49:00 -
[5]
Looks like monocles are more interesting for people as scan. ))
My corp-mates confirm that scanning with the same amount of probes as before (6 e.g.) has become more difficult.
Anyway: FAILcarna.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 22:19:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Esternia Celsian
as for me it's WINcarna  8-probe scanning ftw
Read this topic carefully and you won't be that sure.
Does anyone have any news? I've been told of a bug, that makes only 4 probes contribute to scanning. Will check it myself a little later.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 22:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Swynet
Why have 8 probes when you can scan evrything with 4 I ask?
If there's one bug somewhere I'd say the bug was before, now if you have to use max skills/tools to scan stuff seems to me it's more like "fix"
Another one not able to read the topic from the start?
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:16:00 -
[8]
Well. Very simple check - dropped a probe at the hole with 0.5AU set. We used to get this hole as 99%, right? And now? 62.46%
But well, let's get to something new:
They said us, that all 8 probes now do contribute to scanning?
And now, two screenshoots:
and
I'm a little bit too tired to investigate into it now. But you can try to reproduce it yourself. Just make 2 groups of probes with different radius, and then, after some scan, disable one of them and scan again. Or you can test other options.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:39:00 -
[9]
Still made a check more. The above situation, when 4 "big" probes does not contribute, is seen when all the probes are on the same horyzon with the signature. If they are higher or lower - then those probes do have an impact.
Still, I don't understand a reason for that.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.23 09:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cataca
So instead of making cube shapes try a cross with only the very tips of the probes touching the sig.
Bad idea - the signal strenght depends on how far is the signature is from the probe. + deviation factor, doing it your way you will not be sure all the probes really touch the sig.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.23 12:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
However, despite the two scrawny lines in the patch notes and the non-alarmistic posts by devs, it seems that incarna has considerably altered the scan strength determination formula, thus all the scanning techniques you might have been used to are to be considered invalid (or at least uncertain).
I am currently back to the reverse engineering board trying to derive the new one (already got a lead). As soon as I have it I'll post it, in the same format as the previous formula.
Doesn't it look for you, that a base signal strengh has been devided in 2? I mean, what I now get with 32AU is very close to what I used to get with 64AU.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.23 19:39:00 -
[12]
Got an answer for my bugrep.
Main points out of it:
- This is indeed a change in the scanning formula, which is by design
- a single probe results in a slightly lower signal strength
- the changes were incuded in pathcnotes, but without the details on the formula change
Well, so we'll be waiting for the results of the new research.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
You'll have to wait until it is reverse engineered by players (i'm on it).
Anything I can help you with - feel free to contact me (this is my main). I will possibly ran some tests myself tomorrow afternoon.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.24 06:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Well, I coded it, so I'm pretty sure I know it rather intimately. 
Well, please. There are two screenshots on the 1st or 2nd page, with 4 and 8 probes giving THE SAME results, when being on the same horyzon with the signature. Maybe you will explain at least that? As it deffinitelly looks like a bug for many people.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Could you post screen shots of your probe placement please? It would help me to explain.
My screenshots with 4 and 8 probes giving the same are on the 1st page of the topic. The case is it "works" only when all the probes and the sig is on the same horyzon.
Well... Looks like I write it the third time. Surprised you didn't see it.
Anyway, thank you for cooperation.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:16:00 -
[16]
Seems like I have to appologise to Veritas for being very persistent. I'm sorry.
Well, the idea that redundant probes does not contribute is clear. Then, may we assume that for probes on the same horyzon the signal over some point is considered "not valid" and thus to get a better signal strenght we need to either put probes closer with smaller radius, or move some probes up and down?
This would explain my screenshots.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Yes, you're on the right track. Essentially the large-radius probes aren't telling your scanning computer anything that the smaller-radius probes didn't already know.
If you brought them down to the same radius as the small-radius probes and in to the same distance from the target, they would be contributing. They would contribute even more if moved further away from the existing probes (up and down, in your case).
Thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sence.
Will run tests some time later, but for now it seems that just to move probes from the central square up and down will be enough to make all probes contribute.
Overall it gives to 3d formations more plusses then they used to have. Earlier it was enough to have all the probes in 2d, now even me would have to move some up and down.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.06.24 11:04:00 -
[18]
People report that at least implant for the scan-time does not work.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2011.07.07 12:46:00 -
[19]
I didn't scan for some time, but people say, that after one of the last small patches scanning has become easier again. The first idea was, that skills and implants started working as they should.
However, the signal strength I get from a single probe on top of the signature didn't change. Maybe it is just a limit, so it did not rise with the fix?
Any ideas?
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